heresy 

@Ricci @forivall Thanks, Forivall, for your reply. I believe dysphoria is real. It is transgender as a solution to it that does not make sense to me. I have taken note of your testimony to it as a spiritual blessing. As you know, such personal testimonies have their own subjective value, and can have a powerful effect on someone who shares your views on gender. 1/2

heresy 

@Ricci @forivall For others, a lot more dialogue has to be established for the subject to get any traction, one way or another. I can shout from the rooftop about the beauty of my Catholic faith and what a blessing the Eucharist is to me, but I have to be realistic about the effect this will have on others. So, if I can ask, what in your view, what makes a woman a woman? Clearly not genitals or DNA, so is it hormones, a feeling, a state of mind,....something else? 2/2

heresy 

@RobertFrancis how did people decide what makes a woman before we understood dna, or simply without knowing one's karyotype? Without seeing someone's genitals? Without knowledge of someones endocrine system?

Surely, without all of those things, a woman can still be a woman. And furthermore, we can also discuss among ourselves what makes up womanhood, identify who is and who isn't a woman, so it's more than just a feeling / state of mind.

(1/2?)

heresy 

@RobertFrancis To me, it's an interplay between society and the individual - specifically the individual's body, mind and soul. It's a holistic definition. And it's a living definition.

transgender 

@forivall Hey thanks for the reply. I thought this conversation was forgotten. In asking questions about the transgender model, I do not question your dignity. You mentioned before your spiritual reality, and I affirm your connection to the divine. As a person of immense worth, your life is unique and important, regardless of how you or anyone else defines your gender. 1/

transgender 

@forivall I have no reason to think you are being dishonest when you say you see yourself as a woman. My questions pertain to what that means for biology, language use, and how we perceive reality. I know that asking these questions feels to some like an attack on who they are, but I believe that sitting in timid silence for fear of being called a transphobe is not in anyone's best interests. 2/

transgender 

@RobertFrancis I dont say "I see myself as a woman", I say "I am a woman".

Likewise, on Easter we say "Jesus is risen". We don't say "We believe Jesus is risen" even tho that is the truth from most perspectives. It's a subtle difference, but it's extremely important in correctly describing one's epistemological foundations.

I think we would both be insulted somewhat if an atheist misquoted a christian's beliefs incorrectly, even if the quote is true from both points of view.

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transgender 

@forivall That makes sense. Thanks for pointing it out.

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