@Vaashtii That makes a lot of sense. I predict this is the same order of concerns you'll encounter when sharing your faith journey with him, too.
@Vaashtii This is such a compassionate response.
Please keep in mind that your faith evolution probably won't be any more of a surprise.
I'd be interested in learning how much of your husband's desire for privacy is for himself and how much is because of how he anticipates that when you share more of yourself it will affect his relationships with friends and family.
This is not a reason to keep secrets. And you have every right to share your faith perspective at any time.
@Vaashtii I feel the same way as your husband. For me, this is not a guilt of fear and shame.
It feels more like standing someone up when we've made plans to have breakfast together and I decided there was a better opportunity.
This has never prevented me from going to an occasional NFL football game guilt-free.
I wonder if your husband feels this way or if his guilt comes from a darker place.
@Vaashtii My spouse has deconstructed. They came out as non-binary and bisexual. It took them years to acknowledge everything they were experiencing.
I'm probably one of the more conservative people here, but I acknowledge my privilege as a cis het educated white middle class Protestant male from the northeast.
I wonder if your husband has the language to acknowledge his positions of privilege already. If not, that might be a gentle and less-personal way to start the conversation.
@JosiahRA Yes praying
@Daryn Ferris Bueller, you're my hero
@danielkeyes137 Not a particular philosopher, but Jesus' use of parables to provoke thoughtful reflection upon ethical behavior is a typical Jewish philosophical and teaching protocol.
The Socratic Method is much older than Socrates.
"Teach the[ Commandments] to your children, talking about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up."
Deuteronomy 11:19 NIV
@danielkeyes137 This is directly from the text, so not a deep take.
Paul quotes Epimenides in Titus 1:12b https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epimenides_paradox
One of Crete’s own prophets has said it: “Cretans are always liars, evil brutes, lazy gluttons.” Titus 1:12 NIV
@danielkeyes137 This is an amazing thread!
When Jesus says, "For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink"
(John 6:55, NIV), he is using the Platonic word for real. In English, I've seen this translated as "Form" or "Ideal."
So Jesus at least used Plato's terminology, although I think he is far too Jewish a thinker and teacher to be called a Platonist.
@jellon Thank you! I also agree that I don't "see the effects of the wind."
But I'm not sure I agree that free will is equivalent to a dualist view. What prevents us from being totally embodied and free to choose?
I'm asking to understand your perspective more, not to argue. If this is annoying or boring, I won't be hurt if you don't want to continue
@jherb I'm not convinced humans are the only ones that notice 😉
@jherb This isn't original, but Plato says yes while Aristotle says no.
I am more of a Platonist, like a majority of math teachers.
It seems to me that the universe will follow regular patterns whether humans are around or not.
What is your thinking?
@amal My parents work very hard to this day, but they've never had much money.
When I was in 8th grade, Grandma Mitchell came to stay with us over Christmas break. This was unusual.
My brother and sister and I would check out under the tree, and this year it looked sparse. We figured whatever we got would be enough.
When we opened our presents, they were suitcases with tickets to Disney.
What a fun family surprise!
@Nomuseneeded Can you picture yourself asking one of your parents for help with a tough situation, and have them agree to talk through how to handle it?
You seem tactful and compassionate, and asking for help before sharing your concerns might soften barriers and defensiveness from your family.
Or it might be a horrible suggestion! You know best.
@Nomuseneeded I'm so sorry you're in such a tough position. Church dynamics are so complicated.
It would be amazing if one of your parents were able to correct their pastor!
You are an expert in this field. I wonder if your parents are able to see and respect your authority in this area yet.
@jellon Yes, welcome!
Genuinely curious and looking to understand, not argue.
What about the evidence from neuroscience prevents a scientist from believing in free will?
@Nomuseneeded It sounds like you know this better than me already. Who can inform the pastor of how destructive this crappy, inaccurate, harmful theology is?
I agree with the rest of your reflection. It's healthier to allow space for disagreement.
Maybe you're right. Maybe you're wrong.
I agree it's very hard disagreeing with my parents, even as an adult.
This is an instance for folks who follow The Liturgists Podcast, The Alien & The Robot, and other things The Liturgists create.