@Rachael i've been thinking lately about love as openness to repair hurt caused or suffered.

Our Lady is burning in the beginning of Holy Week.

@LiveYourValues maybe she's like a lot of other people. when life doesn't go well for them they isolate. i don't think it's about you and she apologized. if you're angry it's ok. you can let her know so she knows.

@Schusfuster a lot of the times people talk to themselves when they think they're talking to you. all the feel good ish that's all over the place people should be directing it at themselves. then again if people were to do that first they'd have to come face to face with their own pain and self hate. it is very hard.

@vishnu @mike very good. I have a vegan satanist friend and he is great company. loves rescuing dogs and being kind to people. the only thing that was hard was when his depression caused him to be hurtful (isolating basically, not answering calls and such) but that's due to not being heard when growing up not because he likes seitan. i mean satan.

@Jehouash oh i didn't mean social media friend, i meant real one. but if she's not into new friendships that's ok.

@lydia @Schusfuster it's only comforting to know others struggle if you actually get to meet them and develop a relationship. that's the experience part.

@Jehouash can i be friends with your wife? she put into words what I am thinking but could not articulate.

@Joshu UBI is my jam and I know about Andrew through my old church. one of my friends created a facebook group for the church members to support his campaign.

@Schusfuster i was thinking about you as i was listening to Mike.

@Schusfuster we weren't the target audience of that particular piece, and neither was William, who was talking about something you and I feel and was in a super vulnerable place in that moment. He's the one I feel closest to out of the 4 of them and i guess it is because i sense that he and I had similar experiences of pain and suffering, or we code/make meaning of our pain in a similar fashion.

@Schusfuster yeah, she completely missed this possibility. but it's alright. it's a sign she's human. i'm forever confused anyway about the equal importance given to deep connections to others and rising to the planes of connecting to ourselves so deeply that we can resolve our own pain. Which is the real deal? I have no idea and my brain hurts when i think about it. But mostly i find that the healing is in me being known and recognized through which i can know and recognise myself.

@Schusfuster it seems that we both perceive her as if she possessed these qualities. i suspected that my irritation comes from envy. and then i thought about it more and now i think her language appears as a defence against her anxiety that she doesn't have these things any more than you or I. In actuality neither of us know her. Still, I really can't get it out of my head that the more she expresses herself on this higher plane the more inauthentic she appears to me.

@Ricci i also think through my idea/judgment/statement before i post it and try to word it as specifically as i can to avoid people reading stuff into it that's not there. your statement could be read as ageist because it's dualistic which is an invite really to people to react. at the same time you don't owe anyone an explanation and you don't need to answer a challenge either.

@Ricci when one makes general statements there's a lot more room for people reacting and hearing it the only way they can in the moment. neither of you seemed to do anything that's blockable, then again i don't tend to block anyone, i just ignore them if they get stuck on something they heard i said when i didn't actually say it. ignoring them helps them to come unstuck.

i also had a feeling that the loneliness William described was a the yearning to be known deeply by someone else and we're really only able to fulfill this yearning in ourselves by ourselves if we have experienced it before consistently enough that we have something to guide us. knowing that there is no one in the moment who can do that for us also brings up the pain of loss for many of us which may become amplified by earlier, even more painful losses. so the answer is not as obvious nor easy.

"there is relationality and attachment within your self structure that allows you to connect to something and practice vulnerability even if nobody is there... "you can have a loving and attuned connection with yourself." says Hillary in the Fear episode which is a repeat I think? This is of course true but you need a masters in counseling or clinical psych to get it it's so dense with terminology. how can we say it in an inclusive integrating way?

this episode from can i say this at church is so good. he says something like if you can't get the parable of the prodigal son you can't get the gospel. the older son was the good one and look where it got him. we have to experience forgiveness and grace and it's impossible to do so if we're good. canisaythisatchurch.com/listen

@lydia yes. it takes a lots of energy to get going with the good things. i expect people i love to do this work for me. i guess if i loved myself i could do this for myself.

@Schusfuster control may be an illusion but for many it's a way of existence, a goal, the only place of safety/certainty.

Show more
The Liturgists

This is an instance for folks who follow The Liturgists Podcast, The Alien & The Robot, and other things The Liturgists create.