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Grew up Southern Baptist went to a Christian School and Honor Academy (Teen Mania / Aerie the Fire). Science in college allowed me to interpret the Bible in non conservative ways. 2018 neuroscience knocked my faith in Free Will out from under me. I've lost my faith in the story of Salvation as a result. I do miss my Christian faith and the cognitive benefits of it. I'm seeking ways to reconnect with Christianity in spite of my agnosticism.

@jellon welcome! We’re glad you’re here. Your story is so familiar. I think you’ll find lots of people who can relate on here.

@jellon Yes, welcome!
Genuinely curious and looking to understand, not argue.
What about the evidence from neuroscience prevents a scientist from believing in free will?

@andy12
I can ramble on this. Not nearly enough space in one text. On one hand, I can't find anyone who gives a scientific argument for duslism. Only purely philosophical without observations/evidence. On the other hand, we can measure everything in terms of the brain, including your political party. Also, things like TMS literally allow predictive mind control. There is nothing about you not tied to the physical brain, not even your memories. In this case, I don't "see the effects of the wind"

@jellon Thank you! I also agree that I don't "see the effects of the wind."

But I'm not sure I agree that free will is equivalent to a dualist view. What prevents us from being totally embodied and free to choose?

I'm asking to understand your perspective more, not to argue. If this is annoying or boring, I won't be hurt if you don't want to continue :ohno:

@andy12
Sorry for delayed responses. I frequently forget to come on here. I enjoy such conversations and you are not bothering me in the least. That being said I will continue my response in another toot.

@andy12
The term Free Will means a lot of different things. Most people seem to think of dualism however. Daniel Dennet is one of the New Atheists who both agrees with Determinism and Free Will. I can get on board with his notion of Free Will.
Free Will can be tied to moral agency. In one sense I hold people responsible for their actions but in another sense I realize they are the slaves to their biology and experiences. I find immorality to be a tragedy of nature like other natural disasters.

@andy12
It's also notable that I'm not necessarily a determinist. Neither was Stephen Hawking although he wanted to be a determinist. If there is Randomness in the universe, which is prerequisite for dualism, then it doesn't seem to have a strong enough hold on human behavior for dualism to matter. I have gone looking for the ghost in the machine and haven't found one, but I remain open to observations that are best explained by the existence of one.

@jellon Welcome! Many here are on a similar journey. I hope you find this helpful!

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